we're deficit doves in a down economy, and deficit hawks in a strong economy. at a time like this, what you really need is faster growth. by the way, not only will that help put more people to work, but it will actually help reduce your budget deficit ironically because those people will be working, paying taxes, they won't be drawing on government benefits. when you're into a robust economic recovery, that's when you want to start serious deficit reduction. but if you do it too soon -- and we've seen this in europe. all that austerity. if you do it too soon, not only does it not work on the growth side it actually hurts you on the government debt side. >> okay. politics here, though, with republicans calling for all this deficit reduction -- they control the house -- is it politically not viable for paul krugman and you to get your wish? >> apparently it's less viable than perhaps it ought to be if we were just going on the economics. look, i think the thing that maybe paul and certainly me are both saying is, it may be unrealistic to expect more stimulus spen